tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post2074167638998238212..comments2024-02-18T02:28:39.730-06:00Comments on Nick's Energy FAQ: Are Electric Vehicles cost effective?Nick Ghttp://www.blogger.com/profile/12721405349726668110noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-4637467503217771882017-11-14T02:31:22.649-06:002017-11-14T02:31:22.649-06:00Thanks for sharing this price comparison. I liked ...Thanks for sharing this price comparison. I liked this helpful <a href="http://www.whichelectriccar.com.au/" rel="nofollow">Electric car buyers guide</a>. Actually I just wanted to buy an efficient EV but was not sure about this so started doing online research and finally found this post.jackmariehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04780123996114896738noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-62735022280982264302011-01-23T10:53:58.408-06:002011-01-23T10:53:58.408-06:00Yes, I'll have to redo the calculations to ref...Yes, I'll have to redo the calculations to reflect Nissan's $350/kWh cost claim for their current battery cells; falling battery prices; rising gas prices; maintenance savings; battery salvage value; and lower depreciation rates for EVs.Nick Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721405349726668110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-19347835056802781442010-10-20T20:19:33.145-05:002010-10-20T20:19:33.145-05:00"fuel costs are likely to rise,"
Again ..."fuel costs are likely to rise,"<br /><br />Again your article does not incorporate this. If you insist on making this argument you need to update your calculations to reflect this.<br /><br />What you are saying is not reflected in or supported by the calculations in your article.<br /><br />You can do one or the other. You can't do both.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-46224886591703195922010-10-20T20:15:18.339-05:002010-10-20T20:15:18.339-05:00"3rd, the average vehicle drives 50% of it..."3rd, the average vehicle drives 50% of it's lifetime miles by the time it's 7 years old."<br /><br />If this is the case then you need to update your article to reflect this. It changes your calculations significantly.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-81052730188520831542010-10-20T15:37:34.386-05:002010-10-20T15:37:34.386-05:00First Nissan claims a batter life of 5-10 years.
h...First Nissan claims a batter life of 5-10 years.<br />http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/tags/show/faqs#/leaf-electric-car/faq/view/56<br /><br />So the price of the replacement battery is a very real cost since it takes 10 years to get back your initial investment. Even if the battery goes the full 10 years it leaves the Leaf at a cost disadvantage.<br /><br />Second Nissan's best case scenario is a battery costing $9k. It currently costs way more than that, $18k. Even at $9k its a significant cost that you can't ignore in your analysis.<br /><br />If you want to make the claim that an ICE's maintenance outweighs a Leaf's maintenance + battery costs then make the case. That you just hand wave it away does not reflect well on you.<br /><br />As it stands your analysis is deliberately ignoring a very high cost for the Leaf. It needs to be corrected or retracted.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-78317184183121625092010-10-20T14:06:22.133-05:002010-10-20T14:06:22.133-05:00Anonymous - could you use a handle of some sort? T...Anonymous - could you use a handle of some sort? That would simplify the conversation.<br /><br />There are several reasons why the battery replacement cost wasn't essential to the cost analysis. <br /><br />First, the battery won't die at 8 years: 8 years is the warranty period, which means that it's likely to last at least 10 years at warranty specification levels, and probably more. <br /><br />2nd, the likely warranty specification (based on the Volt warranty) is, at minimum, that 70% of the charging depth will remain: many people will be content with an 70 mile range, and not worry about replacing the battery. <br /><br />3rd, the average vehicle drives 50% of it's lifetime miles by the time it's 7 years old. All in all, I suspect that most Leaf batteries will last the life of the car.<br /><br />Finally, battery costs are falling quickly, which means that a replacement battery in 8-10 years is likely to cost well below 50% of it's cost now. That puts the battery cost well below the additional 10 year gasoline savings.<br /><br />Now, as LeftLibertarian said, fuel costs are likely to rise, and maintenance costs are likely to be lower than for ICE vehicles. For instance, Prius drivers essentially have no brake replacement costs, due to regenerative braking. The Nissan site simply says: "Maintenance costs are projected to be equal to or lower than comparably equipped gas-powered cars. " That's a conservative way of saying that you're likely to save on maintenance costs. Heck, there's no reason to think they're not including battery maintenance costs, right?Nick Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721405349726668110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-68184014856707167072010-10-19T18:47:18.835-05:002010-10-19T18:47:18.835-05:00Maybe, maybe not.
But Nick left out a huge chunk ...Maybe, maybe not.<br /><br />But Nick left out a huge chunk in his analysis.<br /><br />He needs to either correct or retract his original article.<br /><br />BTW Edmunds says it only takes $2.8k in maintenance to bring a Corolla to 100k miles. <br />http://www.bankrate.com/finance/auto/think-of-car-maintenance-cost-when-buying.aspx<br /><br />And Nissan concedes the maintenance of the Leaf could be as much as an equivalent ICE.<br />http://www.nissanusa.com/leaf-electric-car/faq/top/maintenance#/leaf-electric-car/faq/top/maintenanceAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-42170604277842922442010-10-19T18:13:30.394-05:002010-10-19T18:13:30.394-05:00Why should he change his article for that? Nissan...Why should he change his article for that? Nissan warranties the battery for 8 years. His numbers go to 10 years so that is only 2 years past 8 years. If you replace the battery at 8 years, you'll be able to drive for another 8 or so. And besides, how much are you going to pay for in repairs to the gas car? alternators, exhaust system, transmission, engine problems, oil changes, tune-ups, spark plugs, belts, wires, etc.<br /><br />And you know what he did not include? The increasing price of gasoline. Gasoline prices are going rise faster than inflation and thus make corolla much less attractive. If anything, he understated the price advantage of the Leaf.LeftLibertarianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00658939383725543092noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-61607960472015480422010-10-19T16:49:49.157-05:002010-10-19T16:49:49.157-05:00http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-14/nissan...http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-14/nissan-s-leaf-battery-maker-targets-lower-cost-update1-.html<br /><br />"May 14 (Bloomberg) -- Nissan Motor Co., which will start selling its Leaf electric car this year, aims to cut the cost of the vehicle’s lithium-ion battery pack to less than $370 per kilowatt-hour to make a profit from the model."<br /><br />So even if Nissan meets this ambitious goal the battery pack is still going to cost nearly $9k. This puts the Leaf at a huge cost disadvantage to the Corolla.<br /><br />You need to correct you article.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-78560637782993561132010-10-19T16:21:43.330-05:002010-10-19T16:21:43.330-05:00The Wall Street Journal got it wrong. The current...The Wall Street Journal got it wrong. The current cost for the battery pack, according to Nissan's supplier, is $10K and they're working on reducing it far below that - I'll add references in a little bit.Nick Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721405349726668110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-22055676781216313572010-10-17T15:40:45.514-05:002010-10-17T15:40:45.514-05:00http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-p...http://green.autoblog.com/2010/05/15/nissan-leaf-profitable-by-year-three-battery-cost-closer-to-18/<br /><br />Funny how you didn't explicitly discuss that. Since by your own calculations it puts the Leaf at a huge cost disadvantage to the Corolla even if they somehow manage to halve that cost.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-27756868546186150582010-10-17T14:23:12.360-05:002010-10-17T14:23:12.360-05:00Good question - I didn't forget that, but I di...Good question - I didn't forget that, but I didn't explicitly discuss it.<br /><br />Where did you see a cost of $18K?Nick Ghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12721405349726668110noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-5063585505117878771.post-43539383987049609842010-10-16T11:20:48.221-05:002010-10-16T11:20:48.221-05:00You forgot the costs of the replacement battery pa...You forgot the costs of the replacement battery pack for the leaf. Currently $18k with a life span of 5-10 years according to Nissan.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.com